Check out my first post here to read more about the namesake of this newsletter and make a copy of the input/output tracking sheet if you so desire.
“How do you find people to give you feedback?”
This is one of the top questions I get asked as a teacher and writer. And I’m always happy to answer, because I’ve seen through years of teaching that there are four main ways someone improves as a creative:
Taking in and studying work that inspires them
Giving thoughtful, considered feedback on the work of others
Taking in feedback on their own work and determining how to implement notes
Actually writing and rewriting their own work
I purposefully put them in this order, because I believe the first three are what enable progress for your own work.
When I created the Online Satire Writing program for The Second City (link here, though I no longer teach the classes myself), I made giving feedback on other student’s work mandatory each week. Why? Because trying to figure out another person’s point of view, comedic premise, and engine reinforces your ability to define those elements in your own work. It’s a lot easier to see what isn’t yet working in someone else’s work than in your own!
Because of numbers 2 and 3, it’s critical to join a feedback/notes group that has several key elements in place (yeah, we’re listing today!):
You respect the work of the other people in the group. It doesn’t have to be the same genre, the same form, or the same style of writing. But since you’re going to be putting in lots of time and effort into reading and critiquing their work, you need to respect what they’re trying to do and how they’re trying to get better.
You can trust the other people in the group to control their emotions. What I mean by this: they aren’t going to fly off the handle if you critique their project. They aren’t going to have a bad day and then take it out on you by leaving shitty comments on your manuscript. For a workshop group to sustain itself long-term, you need to build and maintain emotional and intellectual trust.
You believe that everyone in the group is putting in the time and effort to improve. I can tell you from my experience in graduate school that it’s very frustrating to read someone’s “rewrite” that has only addressed superficial concerns from the last round of feedback. And if they aren’t putting in the effort for their own work, how can you trust (that word again!!) them to put true effort into understanding and critiquing yours? I would rather be in a writing group with a dedicated beginner than a cynical professional.
The people in the group are dependable. They don’t cancel meetings last minute unless they’re really in a tough spot. If they have a move a deadline (look, it happens!) they communicate that clearly and in a way that doesn’t massively inconvenience the rest of the group. They deliver feedback when they say they’re going to, and they don’t skim your work and then try to bullshit through a workshop. When you meet these people, hang on to them!!
So, where do you find these mystical people?
I’m going to give a biased answer, considering I teach classes, but: taking classes.
There are several reasons for this. You’re already (by virtue of enrolling in the same class on the same topic) among like-minded people. The class is a way to see everyone’s work and whose style or topics you really resonate with. But most importantly, you will see how other people in the class give and receive feedback.
Both sides of the equation are important: are they detailed in their notes? Do they think about how to make the work better in terms of the writer’s vision, and not their own? Are they clear and kind, while still being critical? And in terms of how they receive feedback, I can tell you that being in a group or class or workshop with someone who can’t take feedback is a nightmare. They argue with the teacher and other students. They insist that their readers “don’t get their work.” They shut down. I’m certainly not saying that feedback is always correct or should be forced on a writer, but at least listen and take notes and think about it, then do what you want!
Here’s how I’ve gotten into various feedback groups over the years:
Took the year-long sketch writing program at Second City Chicago in person and went on to produce three independent reviews with the cohort I graduated with. These people read my sketches for years, and ten years after I met them, one referred me for a very well-paying job! All of us at the time were writing sketches and wanted to produce shows, so we were totally aligned on our goals.
Arranged a comedy writing meetup in 2018 (maybe 2019?) and invited about 30 people, many of whom I had met as their teacher. It poured that day. Nine people showed up. We’re still in a group chat and produced a live show together pre-pandemic, given notes on so many things over the years, cheered for each other’s successes and tried to help with setbacks. I still run the majority of all short satire pieces I write by at least someone in this group.
Took an online Novel Generator class through Catapult (RIP) and a person in that class asked me and one other person to join a group, and we added a fourth member who had been in a previous class. We’ve been reading and giving notes on each other’s novels since 2021 :) Again, we are all working in the same form, and during the class, we noticed that we were similar in our feedback styles (positive yet detailed, lots of suggestions and brainstorming for one another to illustrate what we meant by our notes. For example, instead of giving the note, “this scene isn’t working,” saying something like, “this scene isn’t working because it’s not giving us new information, and the character doesn’t experience any emotional shift from beginning to end. Here’s a few ideas for ways to change this, as a jumping off point for brainstorming.”). One person from this group sold their novel this year, and the rest of us are gearing up to follow!
Another former Catapult instructor was running a year-long review group and asked me to join. I had taken a class from them as a student, loved it, and we had become familiar with each other’s topics and work from social media. They were the only person I knew going into the group, but I have so enjoyed getting to read the other writers’ work. This group is new (and somewhat challenging) for me since we are working in different genres (creative non-fiction, fiction, autofiction) and on different topics. I’ve been focusing on being a very careful reader in this group, thinking about how I can best contribute to a project, and really considering the intent of each author and their work. I’ve learned an incredible amount through this group and feel honored to be a part of it!
Notice that classes play a role in each of these :) And to be clear, with the exception of my sketch group, all of these groups met virtually. You can absolutely be in a banger feedback group without living in NY or LA or Chicago.
My writing and feedback groups over the years have changed my life. They’ve taught me so much more than how to become a better writer—I’ve learned how to articulate complicated thoughts on themes and resonance and research. I’ve learned how to disagree with a note, while still respecting the spirit in which it was given. I’ve laughed A LOT. I’ve been introduced to authors and books I never would have read on my own, so as better to give feedback to people outside my own genre. I’ve been blown away by the amount of drafts and changes and pure effort people put into making their projects reality. I’ve improved my own mental fortitude by observing my feedback buds bounce back from major rejections and start something new, refusing to stay down. I’ve felt like a real writer.
What have you gained from a writing or feedback group? Where did you find your people? I would love to know!
My Q4 Classes!
“Short Pieces Into Book Proposals,” September 9th, online, 1-4pm ET, through Writing Co-Lab. Ideal for short humor and satire writers, essayists, memoirists, and journalists who want to turn their shorter work into a book-length project.
This is a perfect example of class into feedback group—everyone who takes this class wants to write a book proposal, so asking someone after the class to be your feedback and accountability buddy is great!!
“Comedy Writing for Non-Comedians,” September 16th, 1-3pm ET, through Write or Die. Want to be funnier overall? Learn tricks and tools of comedy writing and how to apply them in to emails, speeches, and everyday life.
“How to Write a McSweeney’s-Style Piece” 4 SESSIONS, October 2, 9, 16, 23, all 8-10pm ET, through Write or Die.
This is a class for comedy writing beginners! And, yes, it will include mandatory feedback for your classmates 😈
“Write Like an Athlete,” October 7th, 3-5pm ET, through Writing Co-Lab. Learn how tools from sports and behavioral psychology can help you build a sustainable writing practice, complete with rest cycles, volume builds, streaks, and more.
“Funny Frameworks for Fiction” through Writing Workshops. Saturday, 10/14, 1-3pm ET, $75
“Finding Your Story Through Adaptation,” November 11, 1-4pm ET, through Writing Co-Lab. Learn how to take stories in the public domain and flip them into a modern context for novels, short pieces, essays, and more.
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ABOUT ME: My name is Caitlin Kunkel and I’m a comedy writer, long-time teacher, and creator of The Second City’s Online Satire Writing Program. I currently teach classes and consult on gift book proposals, modern adaptation, satire, and comedic literature. I co-founded The Belladonna Comedy and the Satire and Humor Festival, and I co-wrote the satirical gift book New Erotica for Feminists: Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust, and Equal Pay, named one of the Top 10 Comedy Books of 2018 by Vulture.
Great thoughts. I avoided feedback for the first 5 or more years of writing; I was too afraid - which I think is not uncommon amongst beginners. Don't be afraid to get your stuff in others' hands (and as Caitlin points out, reading others' work, which is also critical). The benefits far outweigh the pains. I second most of the thoughts in your piece and below- classes have been the easiest ways for me to find folks willing to trade.
I found an awesome person through your Nonfiction Book Proposal class! We’ve been meeting over Zoom for close to a year now, and those meetings have been so helpful as we both work on our proposals.
This post also makes me think of how I can create more community in my negotiation classes. I’m always telling people to share information-- others in the class would be good candidates for sharing!